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Analytics · COA interpretation

Coming back to: Purity assay versus content assay: two different numbers

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p.mwangiTL2 Moderator6 Aug 2024#1

Purity assay versus content assay: two different numbers — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

I would like to understand what this number means before I repeat it anywhere.

A PeptideMeter report on a tirzepatide lot gives 97.5% purity. The supplier certificate for the same lot states 98.5%. Both documents name a reversed-phase method; neither states the same gradient.

My question is not "who is right". It is: given that those two figures were produced by different methods, what is the largest difference I should expect from method alone, and at what point does a gap stop being explainable that way?

6 likes 2y
DT
d.tammTL2 Moderator6 Aug 2024 · edited#2

Endotoxin testing is separate: a certificate of purity says nothing about endotoxin. A chemically pure preparation can carry a clinically significant endotoxin load. If endotoxin matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

0 likes 2y
AZ
a.zamoraTL2 Moderator7 Aug 2024#3
p.mwangi, post #1: Purity assay versus content assay: two different numbers — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. I would like to understand what this number means before I repeat it anywhere. A PeptideMeter report on a tirzepatide lot gives 97.5% purity. The supplier certificate for the same lot states 98.5%. Both… Go to post

Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

31 likes in reply to #1 2y
OV
o.vogelTL2 Moderator7 Aug 2024#4

What fields matter on a certificate: lot number matching the vial, test date, the analytical method stated specifically, the measured result as a number, and the acceptance limit stated separately. A certificate missing any of these is weaker.

16 likes 2y
EV
e.vargaTL2 Moderator7 Aug 2024#5

I read post #3 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Reading old certificates: if a certificate is dated years ago, the lot it describes might be old. That is not automatically a problem but it is worth noting. Fresh testing on the current lot is stronger than old testing on an older lot.

1 like 2y
BN
bench_notesTL4 Moderator7 Aug 2024#6
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

This follows post #3 rather than contradicting it.

When method identifiers are missing: "reversed-phase HPLC" is less specific than "reversed-phase HPLC at 214 nm on a C18 column with a 10 to 40% acetonitrile gradient over 20 minutes". The second lets someone reproduce the analysis. The first does not.

0 likes 2y
KP
k.perrinTL2 Moderator7 Aug 2024#7
a.zamora, post #3: Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported. Go to post

A certificate of analysis is a statement by its issuer that a defined test was performed on a defined lot and produced a defined result. That is all it is, and it is not nothing. What makes it usable: lot identifier matching the container, test date, method identification specific enough to reproduce, the actual result as a number, and the acceptance criterion stated separately from the result.

23 likes in reply to #3 2y
AB
a.batistaTL2 Moderator7 Aug 2024#8

When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker.

11 likes 2y
RS
r.scholtenTL2Member7 Aug 2024 · edited#9

Purity and content are different measurements: purity tells you what proportion of the detected material is the intended species. Content tells you how much of the intended species is present in the container. A lyophilised vial can be 99% pure and contain considerably less than the label claims because the remainder is water, counter-ion and excipient.

10 likes 2y
GV
g.verhoevenTL2 Moderator8 Aug 2024#10
o.vogel, post #4: What fields matter on a certificate: lot number matching the vial, test date, the analytical method stated specifically, the measured result as a number, and the acceptance limit stated separately. A certificate missing any of these is weaker. Go to post

Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate.

3 likes in reply to #4 2y
TM
t.marchettiTL2 Moderator8 Aug 2024#11

Picking up post #8: that is the part I would want checked first.

Counter-ion form is crucial: peptides are isolated as salts, most often trifluoroacetate from reversed-phase purification or acetate after salt exchange. The counter-ion is part of the mass in the vial and is not part of the peptide. Two vials of the same purity, one as TFA and one as acetate, contain different amounts of peptide per milligram.

5 likes 2y
LS
l.sarkissianTL2Member8 Aug 2024#12
bench_notes, post #6: This follows post #3 rather than contradicting it. When method identifiers are missing: "reversed-phase HPLC" is less specific than "reversed-phase HPLC at 214 nm on a C18 column with a 10 to 40% acetonitrile gradient over 20 minutes". The second lets someone reproduce the analysis. The first does not. Go to post

Coming back to post #10, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

14 likes in reply to #6 2y
NR
n.ramosTL2 Moderator8 Aug 2024#13

Amino acid analysis gives content: it hydrolyses the peptide and quantifies the residues. It measures the peptide content independent of chromatographic purity. Very few supplier certificates report it.

28 likes 2y
I
IHollingworthTL2Member8 Aug 2024#14

Amino acid analysis gives content: it hydrolyses the peptide and quantifies the residues. It measures the peptide content independent of chromatographic purity. Very few supplier certificates report it.

0 likes 2y
RS
r.sobczakTL2 Moderator8 Aug 2024#15

This follows post #12 rather than contradicting it.

When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker.

2 likes 2y
EA
e.almeidaTL2Member8 Aug 2024#16
g.verhoeven, post #10: Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate. Go to post

A certificate of analysis is a statement by its issuer that a defined test was performed on a defined lot and produced a defined result. That is all it is, and it is not nothing. What makes it usable: lot identifier matching the container, test date, method identification specific enough to reproduce, the actual result as a number, and the acceptance criterion stated separately from the result.

9 likes in reply to #10 2y
NK
ni.kravchenkoTL2 Moderator8 Aug 2024 · edited#17

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

21 likes 2y
R
RodriguesTL3Regular9 Aug 2024#18

Reading old certificates: if a certificate is dated years ago, the lot it describes might be old. That is not automatically a problem but it is worth noting. Fresh testing on the current lot is stronger than old testing on an older lot.

0 likes 2y
HB
h.brandtTL2 Moderator9 Aug 2024#19

Purity and content are different measurements: purity tells you what proportion of the detected material is the intended species. Content tells you how much of the intended species is present in the container. A lyophilised vial can be 99% pure and contain considerably less than the label claims because the remainder is water, counter-ion and excipient.

1 like 2y
IS
isotonic_sheetTL3Regular9 Aug 2024#20

When method identifiers are missing: "reversed-phase HPLC" is less specific than "reversed-phase HPLC at 214 nm on a C18 column with a 10 to 40% acetonitrile gradient over 20 minutes". The second lets someone reproduce the analysis. The first does not.

5 likes 2y
CA
c.amankwahTL2 Moderator9 Aug 2024#21
r.scholten, post #9: Purity and content are different measurements: purity tells you what proportion of the detected material is the intended species. Content tells you how much of the intended species is present in the container. A lyophilised vial can be 99% pure and contain considerably less than the label claims because the remainder is water,… Go to post

Coming back to post #19, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Endotoxin testing is separate: a certificate of purity says nothing about endotoxin. A chemically pure preparation can carry a clinically significant endotoxin load. If endotoxin matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

0 likes in reply to #9 2y
TH
TL4_HalvorsenTL4Leader · Journal club9 Aug 2024#22

Picking up post #19: that is the part I would want checked first.

Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

26 likes 2y
RE
r.ekstromTL2 Moderator9 Aug 2024 · edited#23

Counter-ion form is crucial: peptides are isolated as salts, most often trifluoroacetate from reversed-phase purification or acetate after salt exchange. The counter-ion is part of the mass in the vial and is not part of the peptide. Two vials of the same purity, one as TFA and one as acetate, contain different amounts of peptide per milligram.

8 likes 2y
EF
endo_fellow_rkTL3Endocrinology fellow9 Aug 2024#24

What fields matter on a certificate: lot number matching the vial, test date, the analytical method stated specifically, the measured result as a number, and the acceptance limit stated separately. A certificate missing any of these is weaker.

2 likes 2y
LV
l.vukovicTL2 Moderator9 Aug 2024#25
n.ramos, post #13: Amino acid analysis gives content: it hydrolyses the peptide and quantifies the residues. It measures the peptide content independent of chromatographic purity. Very few supplier certificates report it. Go to post

I read post #23 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate.

0 likes in reply to #13 2y
WP
weekly_pinTL2Regular9 Aug 2024#26
a.batista, post #8: When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker. Go to post

Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate.

0 likes in reply to #8 2y
SA
s.adebayoTL2 Moderator10 Aug 2024#27

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

13 likes 2y
FN
formulary_notesTL3Regular10 Aug 2024#28

post #27 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker.

4 likes 2y
MB
m.brobergTL2 Moderator10 Aug 2024#29

Reading old certificates: if a certificate is dated years ago, the lot it describes might be old. That is not automatically a problem but it is worth noting. Fresh testing on the current lot is stronger than old testing on an older lot.

1 like 2y
CB
c.bakkerTL2 Moderator10 Aug 2024#30
m.broberg, post #29: Reading old certificates: if a certificate is dated years ago, the lot it describes might be old. That is not automatically a problem but it is worth noting. Fresh testing on the current lot is stronger than old testing on an older lot. Go to post

When method identifiers are missing: "reversed-phase HPLC" is less specific than "reversed-phase HPLC at 214 nm on a C18 column with a 10 to 40% acetonitrile gradient over 20 minutes". The second lets someone reproduce the analysis. The first does not.

0 likes in reply to #29 2y