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Clinical · Comorbidities

Hypertension improvement and when medication needs revisiting — a second dataset

RM
r.marsdenTL3Regular6 Oct 2024#1

Posting this under the heading it deserves: Hypertension improvement and when medication needs revisiting — a second dataset Everything below is what sits behind that.

General question, not a request for advice about my own care — I know the difference and I would rather be told to see my prescriber than get an answer that pretends otherwise.

I have a panel in front of me with one value outside the reference interval and everything else within it. My instinct is that a single out-of-range result on a single draw is close to uninformative, and I would like to understand how the people who read these professionally think about that.

What I am actually asking is how to tell an interesting result from an uninteresting one before booking an appointment about it.

11 likes 22mo
KB
k.batistaTL2 Moderator7 Oct 2024#2

Worth separating two things that the opening post runs together.

Interactions between comorbidities: diabetes and kidney disease together change the risk calculation for hypoglycemia and for medication clearance. They are not independent variables.

15 likes 22mo
MM
methods_marginTL3Regular7 Oct 2024#3
k.batista, post #2: Worth separating two things that the opening post runs together. Interactions between comorbidities: diabetes and kidney disease together change the risk calculation for hypoglycemia and for medication clearance. They are not independent variables. Go to post

This follows post #2 rather than contradicting it.

PCOS and metabolic overlap: polycystic ovary syndrome has metabolic overlap with obesity and insulin resistance. Data on compounds in this class in PCOS specifically is thin; most discussion is by mechanism.

0 likes in reply to #2 22mo
SC
s.chowdhuryTL3Regular7 Oct 2024#4

Bariatric surgery history: altered anatomy after surgery affects absorption. That matters for oral medications and for reconstituted solutions. Discussing specific medications and doses with a clinician familiar with bariatric surgery is prudent.

1 like 22mo
DT
dexa_twice_yearlyTL3Regular8 Oct 2024#5

post #4 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

10 likes 22mo
HF
h.friskTL2 Moderator8 Oct 2024#6

On post #2 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Chronic kidney disease: compounds in this class have renal benefit in people with kidney disease. The benefit appears to be additive to other renal-protective agents, not a replacement for them.

22 likes 22mo
GP
g.pemberton_ukTL3Regional · UK8 Oct 2024 · edited#7
dexa_twice_yearly, post #5: post #4 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up. Go to post

Comorbidity control: if a comorbidity (high blood pressure, high lipids) is not adequately controlled, the decision about adding compounds in this class depends on the current control status, not on the compound alone.

0 likes in reply to #5 22mo
NB
n.boatengTL2 Moderator8 Oct 2024#8
r.marsden, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Hypertension improvement and when medication needs revisiting — a second dataset Everything below is what sits behind that. General question, not a request for advice about my own care — I know the difference and I would rather be told to see my prescriber than get an answer that pretends… Go to post

Type 2 diabetes: the population with the largest evidence base for these compounds. The SURPASS and SUSTAIN programmes established glycaemic benefit. The renal and cardiovascular benefit evidence is separate from the glycaemic benefit evidence.

3 likes in reply to #1 22mo
FD
f.demirTL2Regular9 Oct 2024#9

post #8 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Hepatic steatosis and MASH: a phase 2 trial in semaglutide for steatohepatitis showed resolution was more frequent on treatment. Histological resolution is a surrogate for long-term clinical outcomes like cirrhosis.

15 likes 22mo
AI
a.iyerTL2 Moderator9 Oct 2024#10
k.batista, post #2: Worth separating two things that the opening post runs together. Interactions between comorbidities: diabetes and kidney disease together change the risk calculation for hypoglycemia and for medication clearance. They are not independent variables. Go to post

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

30 likes in reply to #2 22mo
P
PWendelboeTL1Member9 Oct 2024#11
methods_margin, post #3: This follows post #2 rather than contradicting it. PCOS and metabolic overlap: polycystic ovary syndrome has metabolic overlap with obesity and insulin resistance. Data on compounds in this class in PCOS specifically is thin; most discussion is by mechanism. Go to post

I read post #9 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Cardiovascular disease: several compounds have cardiovascular outcome trials. SELECT was in people without diabetes; SUSTAIN 6 was in high-risk diabetes. Absolute benefit is largest in high-risk people.

22 likes in reply to #3 22mo
CN
c.nybergTL2 Moderator9 Oct 2024 · edited#12
r.marsden, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Hypertension improvement and when medication needs revisiting — a second dataset Everything below is what sits behind that. General question, not a request for advice about my own care — I know the difference and I would rather be told to see my prescriber than get an answer that pretends… Go to post

Obstructive sleep apnoea: SURMOUNT-OSA used an objective endpoint, the apnoea-hypopnoea index. Reduction was substantial. Whether the benefit is weight loss or a direct drug effect is not resolved by the trial.

10 likes in reply to #1 22mo
LS
l.sarkissianTL2Member10 Oct 2024#13

Chronic kidney disease: compounds in this class have renal benefit in people with kidney disease. The benefit appears to be additive to other renal-protective agents, not a replacement for them.

3 likes 22mo
TM
t.marchettiTL2 Moderator10 Oct 2024#14

post #13 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

0 likes 22mo
I
IHollingworthTL210 Oct 2024#15
NR
n.ramosTL2 Moderator10 Oct 2024#16

Multiple comorbidities: a person with diabetes, kidney disease, and cardiovascular disease is outside the studied populations in most trials. Extrapolating to that person requires reasoning from the individual component trials and mechanisms.

15 likes 22mo
EA
e.almeidaTL2Member11 Oct 2024#17

On post #13 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Bariatric surgery history: altered anatomy after surgery affects absorption. That matters for oral medications and for reconstituted solutions. Discussing specific medications and doses with a clinician familiar with bariatric surgery is prudent.

6 likes 22mo
RS
r.sobczakTL2 Moderator11 Oct 2024#18

post #17 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

PCOS and metabolic overlap: polycystic ovary syndrome has metabolic overlap with obesity and insulin resistance. Data on compounds in this class in PCOS specifically is thin; most discussion is by mechanism.

1 like 22mo
BR
buffer_reviewTL3Regular11 Oct 2024#19
r.marsden, post #1: Posting this under the heading it deserves: Hypertension improvement and when medication needs revisiting — a second dataset Everything below is what sits behind that. General question, not a request for advice about my own care — I know the difference and I would rather be told to see my prescriber than get an answer that pretends… Go to post

Obstructive sleep apnoea: SURMOUNT-OSA used an objective endpoint, the apnoea-hypopnoea index. Reduction was substantial. Whether the benefit is weight loss or a direct drug effect is not resolved by the trial.

0 likes in reply to #1 22mo
AC
a.cardosoTL2 Moderator11 Oct 2024#20

This follows post #17 rather than contradicting it.

Hepatic steatosis and MASH: a phase 2 trial in semaglutide for steatohepatitis showed resolution was more frequent on treatment. Histological resolution is a surrogate for long-term clinical outcomes like cirrhosis.

22 likes 22mo
PA
p.amankwahTL2 Moderator12 Oct 2024 · edited#21

This follows post #18 rather than contradicting it.

Comorbidity control: if a comorbidity (high blood pressure, high lipids) is not adequately controlled, the decision about adding compounds in this class depends on the current control status, not on the compound alone.

8 likes 22mo
NR
n.rahimiTL2 Moderator12 Oct 2024#22

Type 2 diabetes: the population with the largest evidence base for these compounds. The SURPASS and SUSTAIN programmes established glycaemic benefit. The renal and cardiovascular benefit evidence is separate from the glycaemic benefit evidence.

20 likes 22mo
DP
d.petrescuTL2 Moderator12 Oct 2024#23

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

0 likes 22mo
IC
i.coelhoTL2 Moderator12 Oct 2024#24
h.frisk, post #6: On post #2 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Chronic kidney disease: compounds in this class have renal benefit in people with kidney disease. The benefit appears to be additive to other renal-protective agents, not a replacement for them. Go to post

Interactions between comorbidities: diabetes and kidney disease together change the risk calculation for hypoglycemia and for medication clearance. They are not independent variables.

2 likes in reply to #6 22mo
FK
f.kimaniTL2 Moderator12 Oct 2024#25

Cardiovascular disease: several compounds have cardiovascular outcome trials. SELECT was in people without diabetes; SUSTAIN 6 was in high-risk diabetes. Absolute benefit is largest in high-risk people.

13 likes 22mo
K
KLindqvistTL4 Moderator13 Oct 2024#26

Cardiovascular disease: several compounds have cardiovascular outcome trials. SELECT was in people without diabetes; SUSTAIN 6 was in high-risk diabetes. Absolute benefit is largest in high-risk people.

27 likes 21mo
VN
v.nascimentoTL2 Moderator13 Oct 2024#27

Hepatic steatosis and MASH: a phase 2 trial in semaglutide for steatohepatitis showed resolution was more frequent on treatment. Histological resolution is a surrogate for long-term clinical outcomes like cirrhosis.

0 likes 21mo
LW
l.wikstromTL2 Moderator13 Oct 2024#28
a.iyer, post #10: Two things before anyone answers the substance. First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound. Go to post

On post #24 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

4 likes in reply to #10 21mo
NT
n.torrenceTL3Regular13 Oct 2024#29

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

2 likes 21mo
KA
k.agyemanTL2 Moderator13 Oct 2024 · edited#30

Chronic kidney disease: compounds in this class have renal benefit in people with kidney disease. The benefit appears to be additive to other renal-protective agents, not a replacement for them.

9 likes 21mo