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Evidence · Preprints

A preprint whose numbers changed substantially at publication

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IB
i.balogunTL2 Moderator21 Jul 2025#1
Community wiki post. Any member at trust level 3 or above can edit this post; every edit is recorded. Last edited by a.salcedo on 11 Apr 2026.
  • 27 Aug 2025 — chromatogram: Clarified the distinction that was causing repeat questions below.
  • 26 Aug 2025 — s.chowdhury: Added the worked example and a unit label to the table header.
  • 2 Apr 2026 — r.venkatesan: Replaced an unsourced figure with the published one and cited it.
  • 11 Apr 2026 — a.salcedo: Removed a claim that the cited source did not support.
Editors: chromatogram, s.chowdhury, r.venkatesan, a.salcedo

A preprint whose numbers changed substantially at publication — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

Session topic: SURMOUNT-2 (Lancet, 2023). Please read it before posting; the discussion is much better when everyone has.

The question I would like us to start with is what the trial set out to estimate, rather than what it found. Once that is on the table we can talk about whether the design could have answered it, and only then about the numbers.

Specific things I would like covered: the population and how far it generalises, how discontinuation was handled, whether the comparator was a fair one, and what the absolute rather than relative effect looks like.

I will summarise at the end and the summary will feed the relevant digest page.

0 likes 12mo
CN
c.niemelTL3Regular24 Jul 2025#2

This follows the opening post rather than contradicting it.

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

28 likes 12mo
ND
n.dziedzicTL2 Moderator26 Jul 2025#3
c.niemel, post #2: This follows the opening post rather than contradicting it. Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions. Go to post

Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim.

14 likes in reply to #2 12mo
B
BramleyTL2Member27 Jul 2025#4
c.niemel, post #2: This follows the opening post rather than contradicting it. Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions. Go to post

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

5 likes in reply to #2 12mo
RC
r.chukwuTL2 Moderator29 Jul 2025 · edited#5

Coming back to post #3, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

0 likes 12mo
CD
cohort_driftTL3Regular30 Jul 2025#6

Picking up post #3: that is the part I would want checked first.

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

0 likes 12mo
SO
s.okonkwoTL2 Moderator1 Aug 2025#7
Bramley, post #4: Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently. Go to post

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

20 likes in reply to #4 12mo
ID
isotonic_driftTL1Member2 Aug 2025#8
n.dziedzic, post #3: Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim. Go to post

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

8 likes in reply to #3 12mo
MN
m.ndiayeTL2 Moderator3 Aug 2025#9

I read post #7 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Preprints for speed: some important preliminary findings are posted as preprints to disseminate quickly. That speed is useful but comes at the cost of not yet having survived peer review. The trade-off is real.

29 likes 12mo
BP
bench_peakTL3Regular4 Aug 2025#10

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

15 likes 12mo
TA
t.abubakarTL2 Moderator6 Aug 2025#11
isotonic_drift, post #8: What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint. Go to post

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

18 likes in reply to #8 12mo
VK
v.krastevTL2 Moderator7 Aug 2025#12

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

0 likes 12mo
KH
k.haddadTL2 Moderator8 Aug 2025#13

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

0 likes 12mo
P
PSkarbekTL3Regular9 Aug 2025#14
s.okonkwo, post #7: Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #10 runs together.

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

4 likes in reply to #7 12mo
BN
b.nilsenTL2 Moderator10 Aug 2025 · edited#15

Picking up post #12: that is the part I would want checked first.

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

25 likes 12mo
MR
m.rasmussenTL2 Moderator11 Aug 2025#16

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes 12mo
MA
m.achebeTL2 Moderator12 Aug 2025#17

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

1 like 12mo
NP
n.petrovTL2 Moderator13 Aug 2025#18
isotonic_drift, post #8: What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint. Go to post

Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim.

7 likes in reply to #8 11mo
TV
t.verhoevenTL2 Moderator14 Aug 2025 · edited#19

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

8 likes 11mo
TT
taper_tableTL3Regular15 Aug 2025#20

I read post #18 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

19 likes 11mo
TV
t.vargaTL2 Moderator17 Aug 2025#21

I read post #19 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

8 likes 11mo
MD
methods_draftTL2Member18 Aug 2025#22
s.okonkwo, post #7: Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished. Go to post

This follows post #19 rather than contradicting it.

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

2 likes in reply to #7 11mo
KO
k.ogunleyeTL2 Moderator19 Aug 2025#23
c.niemel, post #2: This follows the opening post rather than contradicting it. Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions. Go to post

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

0 likes in reply to #2 11mo
S
SHermansenTL2Member20 Aug 2025#24

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

20 likes 11mo
AZ
an.zamoraTL2 Moderator20 Aug 2025#25

Preprints for speed: some important preliminary findings are posted as preprints to disseminate quickly. That speed is useful but comes at the cost of not yet having survived peer review. The trade-off is real.

5 likes 11mo
R
RodriguesTL3Regular21 Aug 2025 · edited#26
cohort_drift, post #6: Picking up post #3: that is the part I would want checked first. Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised. Go to post

Picking up post #23: that is the part I would want checked first.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

0 likes in reply to #6 11mo
EB
e.bakkenTL2 Moderator22 Aug 2025#27

Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim.

28 likes 11mo
F
FConsidineTL1Member23 Aug 2025#28

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

14 likes 11mo
RN
r.novakTL2 Moderator24 Aug 2025#29

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

2 likes 11mo
OA
o.abrahamsenTL3Regular25 Aug 2025#30

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

0 likes 11mo