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Analytics · Mass spectrometry

Distinguishing a deletion sequence by mass alone

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Solved by n.moreau in post #5
Two things before anyone answers the substance. First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

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RM
r.mensaTL2 Moderator17 Jan 2025#1

Distinguishing a deletion sequence by mass alone Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did.

Working through the identity arithmetic and I would like it checked.

tirzepatide has a monoisotopic mass close to 4813.5 Da. On an electrospray instrument I would expect to see the multiply charged series rather than the intact singly charged ion, so for the doubly charged species I calculate (4813.5 + 2 x 1.00728) / 2, and for the triply charged the analogous expression.

The observed values in the report sit within a few ppm of those. My question is what that actually establishes, because I have seen people treat a mass match as a purity result and I do not think it is one.

2 likes 18mo
LS
l.salinasTL2 Moderator18 Jan 2025#2

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

0 likes 18mo
MH
ms_hollowayTL4Mass spectrometrist19 Jan 2025#3

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

16 likes 18mo
MI
m.ibarraTL2 Moderator19 Jan 2025#4

Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

6 likes 18mo
NM
n.moreauTL2 Moderator Solution20 Jan 2025#5

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

10 likes 18mo
PM
p.mbekiTL2 Moderator20 Jan 2025#6

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

0 likes 18mo
AR
a.reyesTL421 Jan 2025#7
JS
j.steinerTL2 Moderator21 Jan 2025#8

This follows post #5 rather than contradicting it.

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

10 likes 18mo
SB
s.bergstromTL2 Moderator22 Jan 2025#9
ms_holloway, post #3: Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass. Go to post

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

5 likes in reply to #3 18mo
K
KTurkingtonTL3Regular22 Jan 2025 · edited#10
r.mensa, post #1: Distinguishing a deletion sequence by mass alone Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did. Working through the identity arithmetic and I would like it checked. tirzepatide has a monoisotopic mass close to 4813.5 Da. On an electrospray instrument I would expect to see the multiply charged series… Go to post

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

1 like in reply to #1 18mo
SK
s.kravchenkoTL2 Moderator23 Jan 2025#11

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

0 likes 18mo
GF
gradient_fileTL2Member23 Jan 2025#12
a.reyes, post #7: I read post #5 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity. Go to post

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

2 likes in reply to #7 18mo
FE
f.espinozaTL2 Moderator23 Jan 2025#13
KTurkington, post #10: Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation. Go to post

This follows post #10 rather than contradicting it.

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

14 likes in reply to #10 18mo
W
WoodhouseTL224 Jan 2025#14
AK
an.kirchnerTL2 Moderator24 Jan 2025#15

post #14 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

0 likes 18mo
R
RidgewayTL3Regular25 Jan 2025#16
j.steiner, post #8: This follows post #5 rather than contradicting it. Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass. Go to post

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

5 likes in reply to #8 18mo
ZA
z.adeyemiTL2 Moderator25 Jan 2025#17

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

20 likes 18mo
CN
cohort_notesTL2Member25 Jan 2025#18

Coming back to post #16, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

0 likes 18mo
SH
s.hartmannTL2 Moderator26 Jan 2025#19
ms_holloway, post #3: Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass. Go to post

post #18 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

30 likes in reply to #3 18mo
TD
t.dumitruTL2 Moderator26 Jan 2025#20
j.steiner, post #8: This follows post #5 rather than contradicting it. Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #16 runs together.

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

0 likes in reply to #8 18mo
AW
am.wikstromTL2 Moderator26 Jan 2025#21

On post #17 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

3 likes 18mo
I
IbrahimoviTL2Member27 Jan 2025#22

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

0 likes 18mo
BB
b.brandtTL2 Moderator27 Jan 2025#23

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

32 likes 18mo
CN
cannula_notesTL2Member27 Jan 2025#24
am.wikstrom, post #21: On post #17 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity. Go to post

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

16 likes in reply to #21 18mo
CK
c.kuuselaTL2 Moderator28 Jan 2025#25
s.hartmann, post #19: post #18 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers). Go to post

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

6 likes in reply to #19 18mo
TF
taper_fileTL3Regular28 Jan 2025#26

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

1 like 18mo
ZN
z.nakamuraTL2 Moderator28 Jan 2025#27

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

0 likes 18mo
D
DSakamotoTL3Regular29 Jan 2025#28
z.nakamura, post #27: Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency. Go to post

This follows post #25 rather than contradicting it.

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

23 likes in reply to #27 18mo
EK
e.kuipersTL229 Jan 2025#29
N
NorringtonTL3Regular29 Jan 2025#30

post #29 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

3 likes 18mo