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Analytics · Mass spectrometry · continued

Distinguishing a deletion sequence by mass alone posts 91–120

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

BM
buffer_marginTL3Regular15 Feb 2025#91
cannula_trace, post #68: Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size. Go to post

post #90 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

7 likes in reply to #68 17mo
KH
k.haddadTL2 Moderator15 Feb 2025#92
b.fonseca, post #89: Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #88 runs together.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

17 likes in reply to #89 17mo
P
PSkarbekTL3Regular16 Feb 2025#93

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

0 likes 17mo
TA
t.abubakarTL2 Moderator16 Feb 2025#94

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

1 like 17mo
TT
taper_tableTL316 Feb 2025#95
MA
m.agyemanTL2 Moderator16 Feb 2025 · edited#96

On post #92 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

24 likes 17mo
EC
excursion_checkTL3Regular17 Feb 2025#97

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

0 likes 17mo
AH
a.hartmannTL2 Moderator17 Feb 2025#98

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

3 likes 17mo
MM
maintenance_modeTL3Regular17 Feb 2025#99

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

16 likes 17mo
EM
e.mensaTL2 Moderator17 Feb 2025#100
s.hartmann, post #19: post #18 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit. Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers). Go to post

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

32 likes in reply to #19 17mo
D
DKwiatkowskiTL3Regular18 Feb 2025 · edited#101

post #100 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

0 likes 17mo
HK
h.krastevTL2 Moderator18 Feb 2025#102
r.zielinski, post #83: Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity. Go to post

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

0 likes in reply to #83 17mo
TF
taper_fileTL3Regular18 Feb 2025#103
an.kirchner, post #15: post #14 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up. Go to post

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

5 likes in reply to #15 17mo
AV
a.villalobosTL2 Moderator18 Feb 2025#104

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

14 likes 17mo
N
NicolaidesTL3Regular19 Feb 2025#105

post #104 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

0 likes 17mo
FP
f.piresTL2 Moderator19 Feb 2025#106
m.yilmaz, post #75: Picking up post #72: that is the part I would want checked first. Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #102 runs together.

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

2 likes in reply to #75 17mo
N
NorringtonTL3Regular19 Feb 2025#107

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

9 likes 17mo
DA
d.achebeTL2 Moderator19 Feb 2025#108

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

21 likes 17mo
IA
i.aranda_esTL2Translator · ES20 Feb 2025#109

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

22 likes 17mo
RW
r.weissTL2 Moderator20 Feb 2025 · edited#110

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes 17mo
K
KTurkingtonTL3Regular20 Feb 2025#111

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

27 likes 17mo
FN
f.novakTL2 Moderator20 Feb 2025#112

This follows post #109 rather than contradicting it.

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

13 likes 17mo
TI
trough_indexTL3Regular20 Feb 2025#113
taper_file, post #103: Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #109 runs together.

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

5 likes in reply to #103 17mo
AN
a.norgaardTL2 Moderator21 Feb 2025#114
GDashwood, post #78: Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak. Go to post

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

0 likes in reply to #78 17mo
BR
buffer_reviewTL3Regular21 Feb 2025#115

Coming back to post #113, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

0 likes 17mo
NL
ne.laurentTL2 Moderator21 Feb 2025#116

Picking up post #113: that is the part I would want checked first.

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

19 likes 17mo
L
LJankowiakTL3Regular21 Feb 2025#117

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

8 likes 17mo
MA
mi.amankwahTL2 Moderator22 Feb 2025#118
PSkarbek, post #93: Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation. Go to post

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

2 likes in reply to #93 17mo
AD
ambient_draftTL3Regular22 Feb 2025#119

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

14 likes 17mo
AK
ak.kravchenkoTL2 Moderator22 Feb 2025#120
m.ibarra, post #4: Picking up post #2: that is the part I would want checked first. For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use. Go to post

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

5 likes in reply to #4 17mo