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Evidence · Preprints · continued

How this community labels and discusses unrefereed work posts 31–60

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

CI
citation_indexTL2Member21 Jun 2024#31

Worth separating two things that post #27 runs together.

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

9 likes 2.1y
AK
a.kravchenkoTL2 Moderator21 Jun 2024#32

post #31 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

2 likes 2.1y
SG
s.grahameTL2Member22 Jun 2024#33

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

0 likes 2.1y
ER
e.roosTL2 Moderator22 Jun 2024#34
titration_diary, post #18: Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently. Go to post

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

21 likes in reply to #18 2.1y
BJ
b.jankowiakTL3Regular23 Jun 2024#35

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

5 likes 2.1y
RM
r.mensahTL2 Moderator23 Jun 2024#36

post #35 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

1 like 2.1y
B
BirkelandTL3Regular24 Jun 2024#37
b.okonkwo, post #24: Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting. Go to post

Coming back to post #35, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

30 likes in reply to #24 2.1y
VR
v.rautioTL2 Moderator24 Jun 2024#38
g.tanaka, post #16: I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological. The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient. Go to post

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

15 likes in reply to #16 2.1y
M
MJayawardenaTL3Regular25 Jun 2024#39

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

3 likes 2.1y
NZ
n.zielinskiTL225 Jun 2024#40
VN
v.nascimentoTL2 Moderator26 Jun 2024#41
m.mwangi, post #15: Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists. Go to post

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

21 likes in reply to #15 2.1y
LW
l.wikstromTL2 Moderator26 Jun 2024#42
h.iyer, post #25: Picking up post #22: that is the part I would want checked first. How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #38 runs together.

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

0 likes in reply to #25 2.1y
FK
f.kimaniTL2 Moderator26 Jun 2024#43

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

1 like 2.1y
K
KLindqvistTL4 Moderator27 Jun 2024#44

Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim.

5 likes 2.1y
JP
j.petrovTL2 Moderator27 Jun 2024#45

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

15 likes 2.1y
DO
d.oyelaranTL3Pharmacist28 Jun 2024#46
hana.sato, post #22: I read post #20 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

Preprints for speed: some important preliminary findings are posted as preprints to disseminate quickly. That speed is useful but comes at the cost of not yet having survived peer review. The trade-off is real.

30 likes in reply to #22 2.1y
NK
n.krastevTL2 Moderator28 Jun 2024#47

Picking up post #44: that is the part I would want checked first.

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

0 likes 2.1y
BD
baseline_driftTL2Analytical chemist29 Jun 2024 · edited#48

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

3 likes 2.1y
IA
id.almeidaTL2 Moderator29 Jun 2024#49

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

0 likes 2.1y
BV
bias_varianceTL430 Jun 2024#50
EM
e.mbekiTL2 Moderator30 Jun 2024#51

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

14 likes 2.1y
GT
g.tanakaTL3Regular1 Jul 2024#52

Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting.

5 likes 2.1y
MK
m.kjaerTL2 Moderator1 Jul 2024#53

On post #49 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

How to cite a preprint: author last name, first initial, et al. Title. Server name [preprint]. Posted date. Doi. Include the server name and note that it is a preprint.

0 likes 2.1y
PN
priorauth_notesTL2Regular2 Jul 2024#54
q.zhao_qa, post #30: Unrefereed work is not worthless. A great deal of it survives review substantially unchanged. It is also the case that the version appearing in a journal frequently has different numbers, and the changes are not random — they tend to be in the direction of a smaller effect and a more careful claim. Go to post

Do not build anything on a preprint that you would mind rebuilding: if the preprint later changes substantially in revision or shows different results when published, your reasoning based on the preprint needs to be revised.

0 likes in reply to #30 2.1y
MR
m.ramosTL2 Moderator2 Jul 2024#55
g.tamm, post #7: Peer review as a filter: published papers have survived a review process that rejects many submissions. Preprints have not. Neither guarantees correctness, but publication history is a difference worth noting. Go to post

Server repositories: medRxiv for medicine, bioRxiv for biology. Preprints on these servers are time-stamped and have DOIs even if they are later published elsewhere. Citing the preprint with its DOI is appropriate while noting it is unpublished.

9 likes in reply to #7 2.1y
CB
careful_beginnerTL1Member2 Jul 2024 · edited#56

What changes between preprint and publication: authors respond to reviewer comments, re-analyse data, correct errors found in peer review, and sometimes report different results from updated analyses. The published version is not the same as the preprint.

2 likes 2.1y
MI
m.ilungaTL2 Moderator3 Jul 2024#57

Worth separating two things that post #53 runs together.

Check whether it was later published: searching for the preprint's first author and keywords in PubMed might find a published version. The published version is the stronger citation if it exists.

0 likes 2.1y
RH
revision_historyTL3Wiki editor3 Jul 2024#58
n.okwuosa, post #27: For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use. Go to post

post #57 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

28 likes in reply to #27 2.1y
AL
a.lindqvistTL2 Moderator4 Jul 2024#59

Coming back to post #57, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Discussing preprints in this community: bring them in for early discussion, label them clearly as preprints, invite peer critique, and be prepared for the discussion to differ if the paper is later published differently.

27 likes 2.1y
GV
g.valckenaereTL3Regular4 Jul 2024#60

Picking up post #57: that is the part I would want checked first.

Always label it as a preprint in any discussion. A preprint is not a published trial and it is not settled knowledge. Use it for hypothesis generation and for understanding emerging evidence, not for drawing definitive conclusions.

13 likes 2.1y