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Evidence · Study critique

Immortal time bias in a claims-database study

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MA
mi.almeidaTL2 Moderator14 Jul 2025#1

Immortal time bias in a claims-database study — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable.

I have seen FLOW (N Engl J Med, 2024) cited in support of a claim I do not think it supports, twice this month, so I would like to work through what it actually shows.

My reading is that the trial is sound for its own question and is being stretched to answer a different one. I might be wrong about that, which is why this is a topic rather than a correction.

What I would like from this discussion: someone who disagrees with me to say why, with the section of the paper they are relying on.

54 likes 12mo
CD
cohort_driftTL3Regular17 Jul 2025#2

Confounding: in observational data, is there a third variable that explains the apparent association? In randomised data, randomisation should balance unknown confounders, though known confounders can be adjusted for.

14 likes 12mo
SO
s.okonkwoTL2 Moderator19 Jul 2025#3
cohort_drift, post #2: Confounding: in observational data, is there a third variable that explains the apparent association? In randomised data, randomisation should balance unknown confounders, though known confounders can be adjusted for. Go to post

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

5 likes in reply to #2 12mo
ID
isotonic_driftTL1Member21 Jul 2025#4

Multiple comparisons: if a paper reports many outcomes, the chance of a spurious association by random chance is real. Pre-specification of primary outcomes matters and secondary analyses are weaker evidence.

0 likes 12mo
NN
n.nakamuraTL2 Moderator23 Jul 2025#5

I read post #3 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Publication bias: a single published positive trial is weaker evidence than multiple published trials with consistent results. Asking whether there are unpublished negative trials is a fair critical question.

21 likes 12mo
CN
c.niemelTL3Regular25 Jul 2025#6

This follows post #3 rather than contradicting it.

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

9 likes 12mo
ND
n.dziedzicTL2 Moderator26 Jul 2025#7
isotonic_drift, post #4: Multiple comparisons: if a paper reports many outcomes, the chance of a spurious association by random chance is real. Pre-specification of primary outcomes matters and secondary analyses are weaker evidence. Go to post

When you change your mind: if a reply convinces you that your criticism was not well-founded, say so plainly. The critique might still be real but smaller than you originally thought. That is not a failure — it is how discussion works.

2 likes in reply to #4 12mo
B
BramleyTL2Member28 Jul 2025 · edited#8
s.okonkwo, post #3: Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

Defending a paper against criticism: if the authors respond, they might clarify something the paper explained poorly. Their response might also miss your point. Either way, the exchange in public is more useful than quiet disagreement.

0 likes in reply to #3 12mo
LT
l.trevinoTL2 Moderator29 Jul 2025#9

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

15 likes 12mo
EO
e.okaforTL2 Moderator31 Jul 2025#10

Picking up post #7: that is the part I would want checked first.

Criticise the method, not the author: a paper with a weak design is not a bad paper by someone with bad intentions. It is a paper that answers a limited question. Sometimes that is what the sponsor wanted, sometimes the researchers did the best they could with constraints.

6 likes 12mo
FW
f.wojcikTL2 Moderator1 Aug 2025#11
l.trevino, post #9: Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

Picking up post #8: that is the part I would want checked first.

Choosing the worst interpretation: "The confidence interval includes a harmful effect" is true if the CI goes from -1 to +5. But assuming the worst-case scenario is not how you use the evidence. The point estimate and the precision both matter.

27 likes in reply to #9 12mo
FF
f.fonsecaTL2 Moderator3 Aug 2025#12
cohort_drift, post #2: Confounding: in observational data, is there a third variable that explains the apparent association? In randomised data, randomisation should balance unknown confounders, though known confounders can be adjusted for. Go to post

Coming back to post #10, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Bias towards the null and bias away from the null: different criticisms have different directions. Differential dropout might bias away from null; conservative statistical analysis might bias toward null.

0 likes in reply to #2 12mo
VB
v.bhattacharyaTL2 Moderator4 Aug 2025 · edited#13

Building consensus on which criticisms matter: if everyone agrees that the sample size is small but only you think that affects the conclusion, maybe your criticism is more idiosyncratic. That does not make it wrong but it is worth noticing.

2 likes 12mo
SR
s.rasmussenTL2 Moderator6 Aug 2025#14

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

9 likes 12mo
AS
a.sorensenTL2 Moderator7 Aug 2025#15

This follows post #12 rather than contradicting it.

What makes a methodological criticism substantive: it identifies a specific feature of the design that materially affects what the paper can conclude. "Small sample size" alone is weak. "Small sample size for a rare outcome, so the confidence interval is wide" is stronger.

20 likes 12mo
SD
s.duarteTL2 Moderator8 Aug 2025#16
s.okonkwo, post #3: Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

I read post #14 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

When you change your mind: if a reply convinces you that your criticism was not well-founded, say so plainly. The critique might still be real but smaller than you originally thought. That is not a failure — it is how discussion works.

0 likes in reply to #3 12mo
NN
n.nakamuraTL2 Moderator10 Aug 2025#17

Choosing the worst interpretation: "The confidence interval includes a harmful effect" is true if the CI goes from -1 to +5. But assuming the worst-case scenario is not how you use the evidence. The point estimate and the precision both matter.

0 likes 12mo
AS
a.salcedoTL3Regular11 Aug 2025#18

Publication bias: a single published positive trial is weaker evidence than multiple published trials with consistent results. Asking whether there are unpublished negative trials is a fair critical question.

5 likes 12mo
BI
blank_injectionTL2Analytical chemist12 Aug 2025#19
f.fonseca, post #12: Coming back to post #10, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Bias towards the null and bias away from the null: different criticisms have different directions. Differential dropout might bias away from null; conservative statistical analysis might bias toward null. Go to post

Picking up post #16: that is the part I would want checked first.

Generalisability: do the inclusion/exclusion criteria narrow the population so much that results do not apply to real people asking about it? This is a fair criticism but requires specificity about which real people and why the difference matters.

0 likes in reply to #12 12mo
NV
n.villalobosTL2 Moderator13 Aug 2025 · edited#20

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

2 likes 11mo
VS
vial_slopeTL3Regular15 Aug 2025#21
s.okonkwo, post #3: Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

Defending a paper against criticism: if the authors respond, they might clarify something the paper explained poorly. Their response might also miss your point. Either way, the exchange in public is more useful than quiet disagreement.

0 likes in reply to #3 11mo
NH
n.hartmannTL2 Moderator16 Aug 2025#22

Building consensus on which criticisms matter: if everyone agrees that the sample size is small but only you think that affects the conclusion, maybe your criticism is more idiosyncratic. That does not make it wrong but it is worth noticing.

21 likes 11mo
LP
l.parkinsonTL2Member17 Aug 2025#23

On post #19 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Bias towards the null and bias away from the null: different criticisms have different directions. Differential dropout might bias away from null; conservative statistical analysis might bias toward null.

5 likes 11mo
MN
ma.nascimentoTL2 Moderator18 Aug 2025#24

Multiple comparisons: if a paper reports many outcomes, the chance of a spurious association by random chance is real. Pre-specification of primary outcomes matters and secondary analyses are weaker evidence.

0 likes 11mo
I
IMainwaringTL3Regular19 Aug 2025#25
c.niemel, post #6: This follows post #3 rather than contradicting it. Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up. Go to post

Confounding: in observational data, is there a third variable that explains the apparent association? In randomised data, randomisation should balance unknown confounders, though known confounders can be adjusted for.

0 likes in reply to #6 11mo
KK
k.karlsenTL2 Moderator21 Aug 2025#26
mi.almeida, post #1: Immortal time bias in a claims-database study — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. I have seen FLOW ( N Engl J Med , 2024) cited in support of a claim I do not think it supports, twice this month, so I would like to work through what it actually shows. My reading is that the trial is sound for its own… Go to post

This follows post #23 rather than contradicting it.

Criticise the method, not the author: a paper with a weak design is not a bad paper by someone with bad intentions. It is a paper that answers a limited question. Sometimes that is what the sponsor wanted, sometimes the researchers did the best they could with constraints.

28 likes in reply to #1 11mo
N
NLoughranTL3Regular22 Aug 2025 · edited#27

Worth separating two things that post #23 runs together.

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

9 likes 11mo
VM
v.malinowskiTL2 Moderator23 Aug 2025#28

What makes a methodological criticism substantive: it identifies a specific feature of the design that materially affects what the paper can conclude. "Small sample size" alone is weak. "Small sample size for a rare outcome, so the confidence interval is wide" is stronger.

2 likes 11mo
F
FFaulknerTL3Regular24 Aug 2025#29
e.okafor, post #10: Picking up post #7: that is the part I would want checked first. Criticise the method, not the author: a paper with a weak design is not a bad paper by someone with bad intentions. It is a paper that answers a limited question. Sometimes that is what the sponsor wanted, sometimes the researchers did the best they could with constraints. Go to post

Coming back to post #27, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

22 likes in reply to #10 11mo
SM
so.mbekiTL2 Moderator25 Aug 2025#30

Bias towards the null and bias away from the null: different criticisms have different directions. Differential dropout might bias away from null; conservative statistical analysis might bias toward null.

10 likes 11mo