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Sourcing · Vendor reports · continued

Reporting a discrepancy without making an allegation posts 61–90

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

NM
n.moreauTL2 Moderator7 Sep 2024 · edited#61
c.okafor, post #48: Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive. Go to post

Date the report: when the analysis was done matters. Material can degrade in storage. A report from two years ago is still useful but is not evidence about the current state of the same supplier's stock.

0 likes in reply to #48 23mo
JS
j.steinerTL2 Moderator7 Sep 2024#62

Testing service selection: Janoshik gives purity with chromatogram. Medutest gives combined purity and identity. PeptideMeter gives verification records as well as results. VendorInvestigate reviews documentation. They answer different questions.

2 likes 23mo
AR
a.reyesTL4 Admin8 Sep 2024#63

Picking up post #60: that is the part I would want checked first.

Lot matching: confirm the lot number on the certificate matches the lot number on the vial. A result from a different lot is not evidence about your vial.

8 likes 23mo
MB
m.brobergTL2 Moderator8 Sep 2024#64
m.nwosu, post #30: Worth separating two things that post #26 runs together. What "verified" means on our pages: specific lots were independently measured on stated dates by named services and results were consistent with the supplier's documentation. It is not a recommendation and does not extend to untested lots. Go to post

Coming back to post #62, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Pattern across lots: a single result is a data point. Three or four results from the same supplier showing a consistent pattern becomes a record worth discussing. Two results that disagree might just be measurement variation.

19 likes in reply to #30 23mo
SL
s.leclercTL4 Moderator9 Sep 2024#65
f.danquah, post #45: Picking up post #42: that is the part I would want checked first. Structured report format: compound, lot, independent testing service, method as reported, result, and the certificate figure for the same lot. One lot is one lot. It becomes a pattern at three or four, and it becomes a disputed record when asked and not explained. Go to post
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

post #64 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Structured report format: compound, lot, independent testing service, method as reported, result, and the certificate figure for the same lot. One lot is one lot. It becomes a pattern at three or four, and it becomes a disputed record when asked and not explained.

0 likes in reply to #45 23mo
MI
m.ibarraTL2 Moderator10 Sep 2024#66

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

4 likes 23mo
MH
ms_hollowayTL4Mass spectrometrist10 Sep 2024#67

Temporal patterns: if results from a supplier were good two years ago but have deteriorated recently, that is information. If they have been consistent over years, that is also information.

12 likes 23mo
YA
y.adebayoTL2 Moderator11 Sep 2024#68

I read post #66 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Dosing and purity: a vial that is 99% pure might contain 80% of its label claim if the other mass is water, counter-ion, and excipient. Purity and content are different. Both matter for different reasons.

26 likes 23mo
AN
a.norgaardTL2 Moderator12 Sep 2024#69
m.ramos, post #1: On the subject in the title: Reporting a discrepancy without making an allegation Working notes rather than a conclusion. Structured report rather than an opinion, following the format the maintainers asked for. Compound: semaglutide Independent testing: VendorInvestigate Method as reported: reversed-phase HPLC, 220 nm Result: 97.4%… Go to post

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

1 like in reply to #1 23mo
TI
trough_indexTL3Regular12 Sep 2024 · edited#70
eire_reader, post #16: For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use. Go to post

On post #66 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Structured report format: compound, lot, independent testing service, method as reported, result, and the certificate figure for the same lot. One lot is one lot. It becomes a pattern at three or four, and it becomes a disputed record when asked and not explained.

7 likes in reply to #16 23mo
AW
a.wikstromTL2 Moderator13 Sep 2024#71
s.girard, post #47: Blind submission is worth the effort: have someone else relabel the sample so neither you nor the laboratory knows which supplier it came from until the result is back. Blind results change minds; self-selected results do not. Go to post

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

0 likes in reply to #47 22mo
JM
j.mwangiTL4 Moderator13 Sep 2024#72
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

This follows post #69 rather than contradicting it.

Disputed records: when a result disagreed and was not explained, the record says disputed and stays that way. We do not remove inconvenient history; we document it.

18 likes 22mo
CR
c.ramosTL2 Moderator14 Sep 2024#73

Pattern across lots: a single result is a data point. Three or four results from the same supplier showing a consistent pattern becomes a record worth discussing. Two results that disagree might just be measurement variation.

7 likes 22mo
JC
j.castellanosTL2 Moderator15 Sep 2024#74
c.ramos, post #73: Pattern across lots: a single result is a data point. Three or four results from the same supplier showing a consistent pattern becomes a record worth discussing. Two results that disagree might just be measurement variation. Go to post

Temporal patterns: if results from a supplier were good two years ago but have deteriorated recently, that is information. If they have been consistent over years, that is also information.

1 like in reply to #73 22mo
JV
j.vogelTL2 Moderator15 Sep 2024 · edited#75
r.jhannsdttir, post #42: Lot matching: confirm the lot number on the certificate matches the lot number on the vial. A result from a different lot is not evidence about your vial. Go to post

Lot matching: confirm the lot number on the certificate matches the lot number on the vial. A result from a different lot is not evidence about your vial.

0 likes in reply to #42 22mo
RI
retention_indexTL216 Sep 2024#76
MA
m.adeyemiTL2 Moderator16 Sep 2024#77

On post #73 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Multiple services on one lot: agreement across two independent laboratories is stronger than a high number from one. Our vendor pages deliberately mix services for that reason.

11 likes 22mo
C
chromatogramTL4Analytical chemist17 Sep 2024#78

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

3 likes 22mo
ES
e.silvaTL2 Moderator18 Sep 2024#79

Date the report: when the analysis was done matters. Material can degrade in storage. A report from two years ago is still useful but is not evidence about the current state of the same supplier's stock.

0 likes 22mo
LF
l.ferreiraTL2 Moderator18 Sep 2024#80

What "verified" means on our pages: specific lots were independently measured on stated dates by named services and results were consistent with the supplier's documentation. It is not a recommendation and does not extend to untested lots.

32 likes 22mo
KA
k.asanteTL2 Moderator19 Sep 2024#81

Picking up post #78: that is the part I would want checked first.

Blind submission is worth the effort: have someone else relabel the sample so neither you nor the laboratory knows which supplier it came from until the result is back. Blind results change minds; self-selected results do not.

1 like 22mo
CC
crossref_checkTL319 Sep 2024#82
NK
n.kravchenkoTL2 Moderator20 Sep 2024 · edited#83
a.pereira, post #3: post #2 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Structured report format: compound, lot, independent testing service, method as reported, result, and the certificate figure for the same lot. One lot is one lot. It becomes a pattern at three or four, and it becomes a disputed record when asked and not… Go to post

Disputed records: when a result disagreed and was not explained, the record says disputed and stays that way. We do not remove inconvenient history; we document it.

23 likes in reply to #3 22mo
CO
c.okaforTL3Regular21 Sep 2024#84
k.ogunleye, post #22: Testing service selection: Janoshik gives purity with chromatogram. Medutest gives combined purity and identity. PeptideMeter gives verification records as well as results. VendorInvestigate reviews documentation. They answer different questions. Go to post

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes in reply to #22 22mo
IW
i.wojcikTL2 Moderator21 Sep 2024#85

This follows post #82 rather than contradicting it.

Pattern across lots: a single result is a data point. Three or four results from the same supplier showing a consistent pattern becomes a record worth discussing. Two results that disagree might just be measurement variation.

0 likes 22mo
BE
bench_entryTL3Regular22 Sep 2024#86

Dosing and purity: a vial that is 99% pure might contain 80% of its label claim if the other mass is water, counter-ion, and excipient. Purity and content are different. Both matter for different reasons.

3 likes 22mo
JF
j.falkTL2 Moderator22 Sep 2024#87

Structured report format: compound, lot, independent testing service, method as reported, result, and the certificate figure for the same lot. One lot is one lot. It becomes a pattern at three or four, and it becomes a disputed record when asked and not explained.

16 likes 22mo
V
VPoulsenTL3Regular23 Sep 2024#88
a.hartmann, post #32: Picking up post #29: that is the part I would want checked first. I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological. The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the… Go to post

Temporal patterns: if results from a supplier were good two years ago but have deteriorated recently, that is information. If they have been consistent over years, that is also information.

32 likes in reply to #32 22mo
FL
f.lindholmTL223 Sep 2024#89
IL
integrator_logTL3Regular24 Sep 2024#90
f.danquah, post #45: Picking up post #42: that is the part I would want checked first. Structured report format: compound, lot, independent testing service, method as reported, result, and the certificate figure for the same lot. One lot is one lot. It becomes a pattern at three or four, and it becomes a disputed record when asked and not explained. Go to post

Blind submission is worth the effort: have someone else relabel the sample so neither you nor the laboratory knows which supplier it came from until the result is back. Blind results change minds; self-selected results do not.

1 like in reply to #45 22mo

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