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Sourcing · Vendor reports

Reporting a discrepancy without making an allegation

MR
m.ramosTL2 Moderator20 Jul 2024#1

On the subject in the title: Reporting a discrepancy without making an allegation Working notes rather than a conclusion.

Structured report rather than an opinion, following the format the maintainers asked for.

  • Compound: semaglutide
  • Independent testing: VendorInvestigate
  • Method as reported: reversed-phase HPLC, 220 nm
  • Result: 97.4% area
  • Certificate figure for the same lot: 98.3%

I am not drawing a conclusion about the supplier from one lot and I would ask that nobody else does either. I am adding a data point to a record.

60 likes 2y
VT
vial_tableTL2Member22 Jul 2024#2

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

0 likes 2y
AP
a.pereiraTL2 Moderator23 Jul 2024#3

post #2 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Structured report format: compound, lot, independent testing service, method as reported, result, and the certificate figure for the same lot. One lot is one lot. It becomes a pattern at three or four, and it becomes a disputed record when asked and not explained.

3 likes 2y
FP
forest_plotTL3Evidence synthesis25 Jul 2024#4

On the opening post — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Temporal patterns: if results from a supplier were good two years ago but have deteriorated recently, that is information. If they have been consistent over years, that is also information.

11 likes 2y
HB
h.bakkerTL2 Moderator26 Jul 2024 · edited#5
forest_plot, post #4: On the opening post — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Temporal patterns: if results from a supplier were good two years ago but have deteriorated recently, that is information. If they have been consistent over years, that is also information. Go to post

What "verified" means on our pages: specific lots were independently measured on stated dates by named services and results were consistent with the supplier's documentation. It is not a recommendation and does not extend to untested lots.

24 likes in reply to #4 2y
PE
ppm_errorTL3Analytical chemist27 Jul 2024#6
m.ramos, post #1: On the subject in the title: Reporting a discrepancy without making an allegation Working notes rather than a conclusion. Structured report rather than an opinion, following the format the maintainers asked for. Compound: semaglutide Independent testing: VendorInvestigate Method as reported: reversed-phase HPLC, 220 nm Result: 97.4%… Go to post

Date the report: when the analysis was done matters. Material can degrade in storage. A report from two years ago is still useful but is not evidence about the current state of the same supplier's stock.

0 likes in reply to #1 2y
CO
c.ostergaardTL2 Moderator28 Jul 2024#7

post #6 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Multiple services on one lot: agreement across two independent laboratories is stronger than a high number from one. Our vendor pages deliberately mix services for that reason.

1 like 2y
MS
m.strand_rphTL3Pharmacist29 Jul 2024#8

Testing service selection: Janoshik gives purity with chromatogram. Medutest gives combined purity and identity. PeptideMeter gives verification records as well as results. VendorInvestigate reviews documentation. They answer different questions.

7 likes 2y
SK
s.kimaniTL2 Moderator30 Jul 2024#9

Disputed records: when a result disagreed and was not explained, the record says disputed and stays that way. We do not remove inconvenient history; we document it.

0 likes 2y
HS
hana.satoTL4 Moderator31 Jul 2024#10
m.strand_rph, post #8: Testing service selection: Janoshik gives purity with chromatogram. Medutest gives combined purity and identity. PeptideMeter gives verification records as well as results. VendorInvestigate reviews documentation. They answer different questions. Go to post
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

Coming back to post #8, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Dosing and purity: a vial that is 99% pure might contain 80% of its label claim if the other mass is water, counter-ion, and excipient. Purity and content are different. Both matter for different reasons.

3 likes in reply to #8 2y
MN
ma.nascimentoTL2 Moderator1 Aug 2024#11

Pattern across lots: a single result is a data point. Three or four results from the same supplier showing a consistent pattern becomes a record worth discussing. Two results that disagree might just be measurement variation.

9 likes 2y
CP
citation_peakTL3Regular2 Aug 2024#12

Blind submission is worth the effort: have someone else relabel the sample so neither you nor the laboratory knows which supplier it came from until the result is back. Blind results change minds; self-selected results do not.

2 likes 2y
SD
s.demirTL2 Moderator3 Aug 2024#13
h.bakker, post #5: What "verified" means on our pages: specific lots were independently measured on stated dates by named services and results were consistent with the supplier's documentation. It is not a recommendation and does not extend to untested lots. Go to post

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

0 likes in reply to #5 2y
LP
l.parkinsonTL2Member4 Aug 2024#14
vial_table, post #2: Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

Picking up post #11: that is the part I would want checked first.

Blind submission is worth the effort: have someone else relabel the sample so neither you nor the laboratory knows which supplier it came from until the result is back. Blind results change minds; self-selected results do not.

21 likes in reply to #2 2y
ZS
z.szaboTL2 Moderator5 Aug 2024#15

Worth separating two things that post #11 runs together.

Pattern across lots: a single result is a data point. Three or four results from the same supplier showing a consistent pattern becomes a record worth discussing. Two results that disagree might just be measurement variation.

14 likes 2y
ER
eire_readerTL2Regional · IE5 Aug 2024#16

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

5 likes 2y
SI
s.ivaturiTL2 Moderator6 Aug 2024 · edited#17
z.szabo, post #15: Worth separating two things that post #11 runs together. Pattern across lots: a single result is a data point. Three or four results from the same supplier showing a consistent pattern becomes a record worth discussing. Two results that disagree might just be measurement variation. Go to post

Disputed records: when a result disagreed and was not explained, the record says disputed and stays that way. We do not remove inconvenient history; we document it.

0 likes in reply to #15 2y
KR
k.redgraveTL2Member7 Aug 2024#18

Dosing and purity: a vial that is 99% pure might contain 80% of its label claim if the other mass is water, counter-ion, and excipient. Purity and content are different. Both matter for different reasons.

29 likes 2y
ZC
z.cardosoTL2 Moderator8 Aug 2024#19

On post #15 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Date the report: when the analysis was done matters. Material can degrade in storage. A report from two years ago is still useful but is not evidence about the current state of the same supplier's stock.

20 likes 2y
UC
unit_conversionTL3Regular9 Aug 2024#20
a.pereira, post #3: post #2 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Structured report format: compound, lot, independent testing service, method as reported, result, and the certificate figure for the same lot. One lot is one lot. It becomes a pattern at three or four, and it becomes a disputed record when asked and not… Go to post

post #19 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

What "verified" means on our pages: specific lots were independently measured on stated dates by named services and results were consistent with the supplier's documentation. It is not a recommendation and does not extend to untested lots.

9 likes in reply to #3 2y
I
IRenaudinTL2Member10 Aug 2024#21

post #20 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

1 like 2y
KO
k.ogunleyeTL2 Moderator10 Aug 2024#22

Testing service selection: Janoshik gives purity with chromatogram. Medutest gives combined purity and identity. PeptideMeter gives verification records as well as results. VendorInvestigate reviews documentation. They answer different questions.

7 likes 2y
AK
a.kwiatkowskiTL2Member11 Aug 2024#23
unit_conversion, post #20: post #19 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. What "verified" means on our pages: specific lots were independently measured on stated dates by named services and results were consistent with the supplier's documentation. It is not a recommendation and does not extend to untested lots. Go to post

Lot matching: confirm the lot number on the certificate matches the lot number on the vial. A result from a different lot is not evidence about your vial.

17 likes in reply to #20 2y
TV
t.vargaTL2 Moderator12 Aug 2024 · edited#24

I read post #22 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Multiple services on one lot: agreement across two independent laboratories is stronger than a high number from one. Our vendor pages deliberately mix services for that reason.

33 likes 2y
CR
crossover_reviewTL3Regular13 Aug 2024#25

Temporal patterns: if results from a supplier were good two years ago but have deteriorated recently, that is information. If they have been consistent over years, that is also information.

0 likes 23mo
EB
e.bakkenTL2 Moderator14 Aug 2024#26

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

4 likes 23mo
MM
methods_marginTL3Regular14 Aug 2024#27
e.bakken, post #26: Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive. Go to post

Picking up post #24: that is the part I would want checked first.

Structured report format: compound, lot, independent testing service, method as reported, result, and the certificate figure for the same lot. One lot is one lot. It becomes a pattern at three or four, and it becomes a disputed record when asked and not explained.

12 likes in reply to #26 23mo
SC
s.chowdhuryTL3Regular15 Aug 2024#28

Coming back to post #26, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Date the report: when the analysis was done matters. Material can degrade in storage. A report from two years ago is still useful but is not evidence about the current state of the same supplier's stock.

25 likes 23mo
EK
e.kjeldsenTL2Member16 Aug 2024#29

Disputed records: when a result disagreed and was not explained, the record says disputed and stays that way. We do not remove inconvenient history; we document it.

0 likes 23mo
MN
m.nwosuTL2 Moderator17 Aug 2024#30

Worth separating two things that post #26 runs together.

What "verified" means on our pages: specific lots were independently measured on stated dates by named services and results were consistent with the supplier's documentation. It is not a recommendation and does not extend to untested lots.

1 like 23mo