The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Analytics · COA interpretation · continued

Second pass at: A field-by-field walk through a certificate of analysis posts 121–150

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1 · go to the accepted answer.

MP
mira.patelTL4 Admin18 Nov 2024 · edited#121

Counter-ion form is crucial: peptides are isolated as salts, most often trifluoroacetate from reversed-phase purification or acetate after salt exchange. The counter-ion is part of the mass in the vial and is not part of the peptide. Two vials of the same purity, one as TFA and one as acetate, contain different amounts of peptide per milligram.

0 likes 20mo
MO
m.onwukaTL2 Moderator19 Nov 2024#122

When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker.

0 likes 20mo
EV
e.verhoevenTL2 Moderator20 Nov 2024#123
n.silva, post #12: Worth separating two things that post #8 runs together. Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate. Go to post

post #122 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Reading old certificates: if a certificate is dated years ago, the lot it describes might be old. That is not automatically a problem but it is worth noting. Fresh testing on the current lot is stronger than old testing on an older lot.

8 likes in reply to #12 20mo
RL
r.laurentTL2 Moderator20 Nov 2024#124
c.serrano, post #40: Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #120 runs together.

When method identifiers are missing: "reversed-phase HPLC" is less specific than "reversed-phase HPLC at 214 nm on a C18 column with a 10 to 40% acetonitrile gradient over 20 minutes". The second lets someone reproduce the analysis. The first does not.

19 likes in reply to #40 20mo
PP
peak_purityTL3Analytical chemist21 Nov 2024#125

Picking up post #122: that is the part I would want checked first.

Reading old certificates: if a certificate is dated years ago, the lot it describes might be old. That is not automatically a problem but it is worth noting. Fresh testing on the current lot is stronger than old testing on an older lot.

0 likes 20mo
NS
no.silvaTL2 Moderator22 Nov 2024#126

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

2 likes 20mo
OB
owen.bradyTL4 Moderator23 Nov 2024#127
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

A certificate of analysis is a statement by its issuer that a defined test was performed on a defined lot and produced a defined result. That is all it is, and it is not nothing. What makes it usable: lot identifier matching the container, test date, method identification specific enough to reproduce, the actual result as a number, and the acceptance criterion stated separately from the result.

12 likes 20mo
SD
s.dialloTL2 Moderator24 Nov 2024#128
n.torrence, post #28: Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up. Go to post

On post #124 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

When method identifiers are missing: "reversed-phase HPLC" is less specific than "reversed-phase HPLC at 214 nm on a C18 column with a 10 to 40% acetonitrile gradient over 20 minutes". The second lets someone reproduce the analysis. The first does not.

26 likes in reply to #28 20mo
MD
m.dalgaardTL3Regular25 Nov 2024#129

This follows post #126 rather than contradicting it.

When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker.

0 likes 20mo
FR
f.rasmussenTL2 Moderator26 Nov 2024#130

I read post #128 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Purity and content are different measurements: purity tells you what proportion of the detected material is the intended species. Content tells you how much of the intended species is present in the container. A lyophilised vial can be 99% pure and contain considerably less than the label claims because the remainder is water, counter-ion and excipient.

4 likes 20mo
GP
g.pemberton_ukTL3Regional · UK27 Nov 2024#131

Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate.

2 likes 20mo
RS
r.szaboTL2 Moderator28 Nov 2024#132
t.nardone, post #39: When method identifiers are missing: "reversed-phase HPLC" is less specific than "reversed-phase HPLC at 214 nm on a C18 column with a 10 to 40% acetonitrile gradient over 20 minutes". The second lets someone reproduce the analysis. The first does not. Go to post

Counter-ion form is crucial: peptides are isolated as salts, most often trifluoroacetate from reversed-phase purification or acetate after salt exchange. The counter-ion is part of the mass in the vial and is not part of the peptide. Two vials of the same purity, one as TFA and one as acetate, contain different amounts of peptide per milligram.

0 likes in reply to #39 20mo
W
WendelboeTL2Member28 Nov 2024#133

I read post #131 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Amino acid analysis gives content: it hydrolyses the peptide and quantifies the residues. It measures the peptide content independent of chromatographic purity. Very few supplier certificates report it.

20 likes 20mo
AV
ai.vukovicTL2 Moderator29 Nov 2024 · edited#134

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

9 likes 20mo
UC
unit_conversionTL3Regular30 Nov 2024#135

Endotoxin testing is separate: a certificate of purity says nothing about endotoxin. A chemically pure preparation can carry a clinically significant endotoxin load. If endotoxin matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

0 likes 20mo
RV
r.vukovicTL2 Moderator1 Dec 2024#136
s.poulsen, post #26: When method identifiers are missing: "reversed-phase HPLC" is less specific than "reversed-phase HPLC at 214 nm on a C18 column with a 10 to 40% acetonitrile gradient over 20 minutes". The second lets someone reproduce the analysis. The first does not. Go to post

Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

0 likes in reply to #26 20mo
DT
dexa_twice_yearlyTL3Regular2 Dec 2024#137

Coming back to post #135, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

14 likes 20mo
MB
m.balogunTL2 Moderator3 Dec 2024#138

Picking up post #135: that is the part I would want checked first.

What fields matter on a certificate: lot number matching the vial, test date, the analytical method stated specifically, the measured result as a number, and the acceptance limit stated separately. A certificate missing any of these is weaker.

5 likes 20mo
VS
vial_slopeTL3Regular4 Dec 2024#139

Worth separating two things that post #135 runs together.

Reading old certificates: if a certificate is dated years ago, the lot it describes might be old. That is not automatically a problem but it is worth noting. Fresh testing on the current lot is stronger than old testing on an older lot.

0 likes 20mo
NH
n.hartmannTL2 Moderator4 Dec 2024#140
j.sorensen, post #71: This follows post #68 rather than contradicting it. What fields matter on a certificate: lot number matching the vial, test date, the analytical method stated specifically, the measured result as a number, and the acceptance limit stated separately. A certificate missing any of these is weaker. Go to post

post #139 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

29 likes in reply to #71 20mo
HK
h.koodziejTL2Member5 Dec 2024 · edited#141

post #140 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Water content (residual moisture) matters: lyophilised peptide is not dry. A few percent water is normal. The difference between a TFA salt and an acetate salt can be several percent. Content calculations need the water content to be accurate.

0 likes 20mo
TD
t.demirTL2 Moderator6 Dec 2024#142

Worth separating two things that post #138 runs together.

Purity and content are different measurements: purity tells you what proportion of the detected material is the intended species. Content tells you how much of the intended species is present in the container. A lyophilised vial can be 99% pure and contain considerably less than the label claims because the remainder is water, counter-ion and excipient.

5 likes 20mo
ES
e.silvaTL2 Moderator7 Dec 2024#143

When a document puts the specification in the result column, it has told you the release criterion, not the measurement. Those are different claims and the second is weaker.

14 likes 20mo
AA
an.adeyemiTL2 Moderator8 Dec 2024#144
Knowlton, post #24: Endotoxin testing is separate: a certificate of purity says nothing about endotoxin. A chemically pure preparation can carry a clinically significant endotoxin load. If endotoxin matters, it needs to be tested and reported. Go to post

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

29 likes in reply to #24 20mo
EL
e.lokkenTL2 Moderator9 Dec 2024#145
j.castellanos, post #72: Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported. Go to post

post #144 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Sterility testing is separate: chromatographic purity, mass spectrometry, and endotoxin testing all say nothing about whether a solution is sterile. If sterility matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

0 likes in reply to #72 20mo
CR
c.rasmussenTL2 Moderator10 Dec 2024#146

Endotoxin testing is separate: a certificate of purity says nothing about endotoxin. A chemically pure preparation can carry a clinically significant endotoxin load. If endotoxin matters, it needs to be tested and reported.

2 likes 20mo
JN
j.nascimentoTL2 Moderator11 Dec 2024#147

Amino acid analysis gives content: it hydrolyses the peptide and quantifies the residues. It measures the peptide content independent of chromatographic purity. Very few supplier certificates report it.

9 likes 20mo
CB
c.bakkerTL2 Moderator11 Dec 2024#148
c.serrano, post #40: Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive. Go to post

Counter-ion form is crucial: peptides are isolated as salts, most often trifluoroacetate from reversed-phase purification or acetate after salt exchange. The counter-ion is part of the mass in the vial and is not part of the peptide. Two vials of the same purity, one as TFA and one as acetate, contain different amounts of peptide per milligram.

21 likes in reply to #40 20mo
CR
c.ramosTL2 Moderator12 Dec 2024#149

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

5 likes 20mo
SL
s.leclercTL4 Moderator13 Dec 2024#150
Staff post. Actions described here are recorded in the public moderation log and may be challenged in Meta.

When method identifiers are missing: "reversed-phase HPLC" is less specific than "reversed-phase HPLC at 214 nm on a C18 column with a 10 to 40% acetonitrile gradient over 20 minutes". The second lets someone reproduce the analysis. The first does not.

14 likes 19mo