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Topic summary

A claim built entirely on a subgroup analysis

This is a generated summary. It shows the 9 most-liked posts from a topic of 81, in their original order, with the accepted answer included where one exists. It is a reading aid and it will miss nuance — the full topic is the record.
AS
a.salcedoTL3Regular20 Apr 2025#1

A claim built entirely on a subgroup analysis Writing it up because I had to work it out twice and would rather nobody else did.

I have seen SUSTAIN 6 (N Engl J Med, 2016) cited in support of a claim I do not think it supports, twice this month, so I would like to work through what it actually shows.

My reading is that the trial is sound for its own question and is being stretched to answer a different one. I might be wrong about that, which is why this is a topic rather than a correction.

What I would like from this discussion: someone who disagrees with me to say why, with the section of the paper they are relying on.

26 likes 15mo
AS
a.silvaTL2 Moderator24 Apr 2025#4

This follows the opening post rather than contradicting it.

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

28 likes 15mo
VB
va.baptistaTL2 Moderator Solution28 Apr 2025#9

Worth separating two things that post #5 runs together.

Multiple comparisons: if a paper reports many outcomes, the chance of a spurious association by random chance is real. Pre-specification of primary outcomes matters and secondary analyses are weaker evidence.

27 likes 15mo
AR
a.reyesTL4 Admin11 May 2025#28
p.mbeki, post #23: I read post #21 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Publication bias: a single published positive trial is weaker evidence than multiple published trials with consistent results. Asking whether there are unpublished negative trials is a fair critical question. Go to post

Picking up post #25: that is the part I would want checked first.

Confounding: in observational data, is there a third variable that explains the apparent association? In randomised data, randomisation should balance unknown confounders, though known confounders can be adjusted for.

33 likes in reply to #23 15mo
BO
b.oseiTL2 Moderator17 May 2025#40

Multiple comparisons: if a paper reports many outcomes, the chance of a spurious association by random chance is real. Pre-specification of primary outcomes matters and secondary analyses are weaker evidence.

26 likes 14mo
DN
desiccant_notesTL2Member22 May 2025#48

Publication bias: a single published positive trial is weaker evidence than multiple published trials with consistent results. Asking whether there are unpublished negative trials is a fair critical question.

29 likes 14mo
BV
bias_varianceTL4Biostatistician26 May 2025#56

On post #52 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Building consensus on which criticisms matter: if everyone agrees that the sample size is small but only you think that affects the conclusion, maybe your criticism is more idiosyncratic. That does not make it wrong but it is worth noticing.

31 likes 14mo
BO
b.oseiTL2 Moderator3 Jun 2025#72
cannula_drift, post #32: When you change your mind: if a reply convinces you that your criticism was not well-founded, say so plainly. The critique might still be real but smaller than you originally thought. That is not a failure — it is how discussion works. Go to post

Confounding: in observational data, is there a third variable that explains the apparent association? In randomised data, randomisation should balance unknown confounders, though known confounders can be adjusted for.

28 likes in reply to #32 14mo
ST
stopper_traceTL2Member6 Jun 2025#79
w.verhoeven, post #33: Choosing the worst interpretation: "The confidence interval includes a harmful effect" is true if the CI goes from -1 to +5. But assuming the worst-case scenario is not how you use the evidence. The point estimate and the precision both matter. Go to post

Picking up post #76: that is the part I would want checked first.

Choosing the worst interpretation: "The confidence interval includes a harmful effect" is true if the CI goes from -1 to +5. But assuming the worst-case scenario is not how you use the evidence. The point estimate and the precision both matter.

27 likes in reply to #33 14mo

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