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Analytics · Mass spectrometry

Counter-ion content and its effect on measured mass

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Solved by n.zielinski in post #9
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JT
j.teixeiraTL2 Moderator13 Mar 2025#1

On the subject in the title: Counter-ion content and its effect on measured mass Working notes rather than a conclusion.

Working through the identity arithmetic and I would like it checked.

retatrutide has a monoisotopic mass close to 4731.3 Da. On an electrospray instrument I would expect to see the multiply charged series rather than the intact singly charged ion, so for the doubly charged species I calculate (4731.3 + 2 x 1.00728) / 2, and for the triply charged the analogous expression.

The observed values in the report sit within a few ppm of those. My question is what that actually establishes, because I have seen people treat a mass match as a purity result and I do not think it is one.

10 likes 17mo
FA
f.abrahamsenTL2Member17 Mar 2025#2

Coming back to the opening post, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

14 likes 16mo
ID
il.dumitruTL2 Moderator19 Mar 2025 · edited#3

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

28 likes 16mo
GH
g.haalandTL3Regular22 Mar 2025#4

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

0 likes 16mo
IO
i.oseiTL2 Moderator24 Mar 2025#5

This follows post #2 rather than contradicting it.

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

2 likes 16mo
O
OkaforTL3Regular26 Mar 2025#6
il.dumitru, post #3: Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up. Go to post

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

9 likes in reply to #3 16mo
SO
s.oyelaranTL2 Moderator28 Mar 2025#7
i.osei, post #5: This follows post #2 rather than contradicting it. Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy. Go to post

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

21 likes in reply to #5 16mo
O
OTeixeiraTL3Regular30 Mar 2025#8

Worth separating two things that post #4 runs together.

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

0 likes 16mo
NZ
n.zielinskiTL2 Moderator Solution1 Apr 2025#9

For anyone arriving from a search: the marked solution above is the direct answer, and the replies underneath it add the caveats that make it safe to use.

13 likes 16mo
M
MJayawardenaTL3Regular2 Apr 2025#10

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

27 likes 16mo
AE
a.eriksenTL24 Apr 2025#11
B
BBramleyTL3Regular6 Apr 2025 · edited#12
g.haaland, post #4: Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak. Go to post

post #11 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

1 like in reply to #4 16mo
EM
e.mensaTL2 Moderator8 Apr 2025#13
BBramley, post #12: post #11 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity. Go to post

Coming back to post #11, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

30 likes in reply to #12 16mo
VD
vial_deskTL3Regular9 Apr 2025#14

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

15 likes 16mo
IA
i.amankwahTL2 Moderator11 Apr 2025#15

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

9 likes 16mo
JV
j.vandermolenTL3Regular12 Apr 2025#16
il.dumitru, post #3: Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up. Go to post

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

2 likes in reply to #3 16mo
CS
c.serranoTL2 Moderator14 Apr 2025#17

I read post #15 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Electrospray ionisation produces multiply charged ions. For a 4 kDa peptide you expect mostly 2+, 3+, and 4+ charge states. Reading an electrospray spectrum means recognizing the envelope, not looking for one peak.

0 likes 15mo
TN
t.nardoneTL3Regular15 Apr 2025#18

This follows post #15 rather than contradicting it.

Purity and identity are different questions: LC-MS establishes that the species at a retention time has the expected mass. It does not establish how much of the sample is that species (that is what LC-UV purity answers).

21 likes 15mo
SD
st.dialloTL2 Moderator17 Apr 2025#19
Okafor, post #6: Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means Go to post

What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else.

14 likes in reply to #6 15mo
H
HHidalgoTL2Member19 Apr 2025#20
f.abrahamsen, post #2: Coming back to the opening post, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples. Go to post

Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a peptide of this size.

5 likes in reply to #2 15mo
EK
e.kuipersTL2 Moderator20 Apr 2025#21
OTeixeira, post #8: Worth separating two things that post #4 runs together. Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

post #20 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

Charge states observed: for semaglutide (4113.6 Da) the doubly charged ion appears at m/z ≈ 2057, triply charged at ≈ 1371, quadruply at ≈ 1029. Those are the positions to look for; the heights depend on the ionization efficiency.

0 likes in reply to #8 15mo
LM
lyophil_marginTL3Regular21 Apr 2025#22
vial_desk, post #14: What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else. Go to post

Common adducts: sodium adds ≈22, potassium adds ≈38 compared to hydrogen. A [M+Na]+ peak is common and its mass is predictable from the base mass.

4 likes in reply to #14 15mo
MY
m.yildizTL2 Moderator23 Apr 2025#23

Calibration matters: a high-resolution instrument out of calibration can report mass with ppm error large enough to be uninformative. Check when the instrument was last calibrated before trusting the reported accuracy.

12 likes 15mo
KF
k.farrugiaTL3Regular24 Apr 2025#24

I read post #22 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Resolution: "high resolution" commonly means <5 ppm across the mass range. Unit-resolution instruments achieve ±1 Da at best and cannot distinguish two species differing by less than 1 Da in total mass.

25 likes 15mo
SL
s.lindqvistTL2 Moderator26 Apr 2025 · edited#25
e.mensa, post #13: Coming back to post #11, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer. Mass accuracy is expressed in parts per million. It is the difference between observed and theoretical mass divided by theoretical mass, multiplied by a million. A high-resolution instrument in good calibration achieves low single-digit ppm on a… Go to post

Quantitation by MS: most quantitation is done by LC-UV detection at 214 nm, not by MS, because extinction coefficients are better known. MS can quantify if an internal standard is used but that requires preparation.

0 likes in reply to #13 15mo
FR
figure_reviewTL2Member27 Apr 2025#26
st.diallo, post #19: What mass accuracy establishes: the measured mass is consistent with a specific composition. What it does not establish: purity, sequence order, stereochemistry, or the absence of an isobaric species. Every one of those requires something else. Go to post

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

1 like in reply to #19 15mo
JM
j.marchettiTL2 Moderator29 Apr 2025#27

Picking up post #24: that is the part I would want checked first.

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my earlier post with a note rather than silently, so the thread still makes sense to read. The error was mine and it was the kind that comes from remembering a figure instead of looking it up.

7 likes 15mo
N
NorringtonTL3Regular30 Apr 2025#28

Coming back to post #26, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Tandem mass spectrometry: MS/MS fragments the molecular ion and uses fragment masses to confirm identity and detect modifications. A simple identity confirmation by LC-MS does not address post-translational modifications or impurities with the same or very close mass.

18 likes 15mo
ET
e.tammTL2 Moderator1 May 2025#29

Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity.

0 likes 15mo
CN
cannula_notesTL2Member3 May 2025#30
BBramley, post #12: post #11 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. Desalting before analysis: some samples need desalting to remove salts that suppress the peptide signal. Report whether desalting was used, because it can affect the apparent ionization efficiency and the reported purity. Go to post

Worth separating two things that post #26 runs together.

Sample matrix effects: if a sample is dissolved in a complex matrix, other compounds in the matrix can suppress the peptide signal. Clean samples give higher sensitivity than dirty samples.

0 likes in reply to #12 15mo