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Evidence · Journal club · continued

[2026 update] Journal club: SURPASS-2 and the semaglutide 1 mg comparator posts 121–139

This is a continuation of a long topic, addressed by post number rather than by page. Start at post 1.

PO
p.ostergaardTL2 Moderator9 Feb 2025#121

STEP 1 (N Engl J Med 2021): The pivotal obesity trial for semaglutide and the reference point for most subsequent comparison. Mean weight reduction was substantially larger than anything previously achieved pharmacologically.

25 likes 18mo
LE
logbook_erinTL3Regular10 Feb 2025#122
aliquot_line, post #120: This follows post #117 rather than contradicting it. Session format: read the paper before posting. The discussion is much better when everyone has. Start with the estimand and population, then methods, then results, then limitations. That order makes critique coherent. Go to post

Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive.

0 likes in reply to #120 18mo
CV
c.vasquezTL2 Moderator11 Feb 2025 · edited#123

post #122 is right about the mechanism and I think understates the practical bit.

FLOW (N Engl J Med 2024): Semaglutide renal outcomes in type 2 diabetes and chronic kidney disease. Stopped early for efficacy. Component-by-component analysis is essential because the components differ in how patient-important they are.

4 likes 18mo
CL
customs_ledgerTL3Regular11 Feb 2025#124

SURMOUNT-OSA (N Engl J Med 2024): Tirzepatide in obstructive sleep apnoea, using an objective physiological endpoint. Notable because soft endpoints are avoided. Two parallel trials addressed the confounder directly.

12 likes 17mo
KA
k.asanteTL2 Moderator12 Feb 2025#125

I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological.

The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient.

0 likes 17mo
CC
crossref_checkTL3Wiki editor13 Feb 2025#126

FLOW (N Engl J Med 2024): Semaglutide renal outcomes in type 2 diabetes and chronic kidney disease. Stopped early for efficacy. Component-by-component analysis is essential because the components differ in how patient-important they are.

0 likes 17mo
SG
s.girardTL2 Moderator14 Feb 2025#127
n.norgaard, post #13: This follows post #10 rather than contradicting it. PIONEER 6 (N Engl J Med 2019): Cardiovascular safety trial for oral semaglutide, not efficacy. Non-inferiority for safety was met. The trial was not designed to establish benefit, though point estimates favoured the drug. Go to post

post #126 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different.

SURMOUNT-OSA (N Engl J Med 2024): Tirzepatide in obstructive sleep apnoea, using an objective physiological endpoint. Notable because soft endpoints are avoided. Two parallel trials addressed the confounder directly.

7 likes in reply to #13 17mo
CO
c.okaforTL315 Feb 2025#128
VB
v.bergstromTL2 Moderator16 Feb 2025#129
k.asante, post #125: I disagree with the reply above, and I think the disagreement is substantive rather than terminological. The distinction being drawn does not survive when you look at the published data for this specific question. I would be glad to be shown wrong on this, because the version I am arguing against is more convenient. Go to post

This follows post #126 rather than contradicting it.

SOUL (N Engl J Med 2025): Oral semaglutide cardiovascular outcomes. Extends the cardiovascular evidence to the oral formulation. Note that oral bioavailability is lower and more variable than injectable.

0 likes in reply to #125 17mo
RJ
r.jhannsdttirTL3Regular17 Feb 2025#130
m.oyelaran, post #25: Practical note that does not fit anywhere else. Whatever you conclude from this topic, write down what you did and when. The single most useful thing in your own records is not any individual result; it is that they are dated and consecutive. Go to post

SURMOUNT-1 (N Engl J Med 2022): Tirzepatide obesity trial. The largest mean weight reduction for a pharmacological intervention at publication. Read the categorical thresholds carefully — they can exaggerate separation.

1 like in reply to #25 17mo
YM
y.mensahTL3Wiki editor17 Feb 2025#131

Critical appraisal template: (1) What did the trial set out to estimate? (2) Could the design answer that question? (3) Was the population sufficiently similar to your population to apply the results? (4) What was the absolute effect, not just the relative one? (5) What are the two strongest criticisms available?

9 likes 17mo
HE
h.espinozaTL2 Moderator18 Feb 2025#132

Session format: read the paper before posting. The discussion is much better when everyone has. Start with the estimand and population, then methods, then results, then limitations. That order makes critique coherent.

2 likes 17mo
BJ
b.jankowiakTL3Regular19 Feb 2025#133

I read post #131 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite.

Two things before anyone answers the substance.

First, the context in the first post is clear and specific. Second, the question is framed so that an answer can actually address it. Both are the norm here and both matter more than they sound.

0 likes 17mo
JF
j.falkTL2 Moderator20 Feb 2025#134
c.okafor, post #128: On post #124 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. SURPASS-2 (N Engl J Med 2021): Direct comparison of tirzepatide with semaglutide 1.0 mg. The 1.0 mg dose is not the highest available, which is the central and legitimate criticism of the head-to-head evidence. Go to post

This follows post #131 rather than contradicting it.

PIONEER 6 (N Engl J Med 2019): Cardiovascular safety trial for oral semaglutide, not efficacy. Non-inferiority for safety was met. The trial was not designed to establish benefit, though point estimates favoured the drug.

20 likes in reply to #128 17mo
WN
w.novakTL3Regular21 Feb 2025#135
m.restrepo, post #71: This follows post #68 rather than contradicting it. SOUL (N Engl J Med 2025): Oral semaglutide cardiovascular outcomes. Extends the cardiovascular evidence to the oral formulation. Note that oral bioavailability is lower and more variable than injectable. Go to post

On post #131 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

TRIUMPH (ongoing): Retatrutide phase 3. No results yet. Nothing should be attributed to it because it has not finished. When it does, this discussion will return to it.

5 likes in reply to #71 17mo
FW
f.weissTL2 Moderator22 Feb 2025#136

STEP 1 (N Engl J Med 2021): The pivotal obesity trial for semaglutide and the reference point for most subsequent comparison. Mean weight reduction was substantially larger than anything previously achieved pharmacologically.

0 likes 17mo
ST
slow_titratorTL2Regular23 Feb 2025#137

SELECT (N Engl J Med 2023): Semaglutide cardiovascular outcomes without diabetes. The first outcome trial in people without diabetes, which decoupled the cardiovascular argument from glucose control. Read the absolute numbers, not just the relative reduction.

29 likes 17mo
TK
t.karlsenTL2 Moderator23 Feb 2025 · edited#138
GEldridge, post #118: post #117 answers the question as asked. The question underneath it is different. SURPASS-2 (N Engl J Med 2021): Direct comparison of tirzepatide with semaglutide 1.0 mg. The 1.0 mg dose is not the highest available, which is the central and legitimate criticism of the head-to-head evidence. Go to post

Picking up post #135: that is the part I would want checked first.

SELECT (N Engl J Med 2023): Semaglutide cardiovascular outcomes without diabetes. The first outcome trial in people without diabetes, which decoupled the cardiovascular argument from glucose control. Read the absolute numbers, not just the relative reduction.

14 likes in reply to #118 17mo
IL
integrator_logTL3Regular24 Feb 2025#139
a.vestergaard, post #117: On post #113 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. SURMOUNT-1 (N Engl J Med 2022): Tirzepatide obesity trial. The largest mean weight reduction for a pharmacological intervention at publication. Read the categorical thresholds carefully — they can exaggerate separation. Go to post

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

2 likes in reply to #117 17mo

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