The Peptide CommonsEst. May 2024
Independent. We sell nothing and are affiliated with no manufacturer or pharmacy. Every moderation action is logged in public
Topic summary

Reading a preclinical wound-healing model and its relevance to a human tendon

This is a generated summary. It shows the 9 most-liked posts from a topic of 161, in their original order, with the accepted answer included where one exists. It is a reading aid and it will miss nuance — the full topic is the record.
P
PSkarbekTL3Regular5 Nov 2024#1

On the subject in the title: Reading a preclinical wound-healing model and its relevance to a human tendon Working notes rather than a conclusion.

I have seen PIONEER 6 (N Engl J Med, 2019) cited in support of a claim I do not think it supports, twice this month, so I would like to work through what it actually shows.

My reading is that the trial is sound for its own question and is being stretched to answer a different one. I might be wrong about that, which is why this is a topic rather than a correction.

What I would like from this discussion: someone who disagrees with me to say why, with the section of the paper they are relying on.

29 likes 21mo
MD
m.duarteTL2 Moderator5 Nov 2024 · edited#2

TB-500 is usually the 7-residue actin-binding fragment of thymosin beta-4, not the full 43-residue protein. The two are routinely conflated in supplier documentation and in the literature. Evidence about the full protein does not automatically apply to the fragment.

31 likes 21mo
ZV
z.vogelTL2 Moderator7 Nov 2024 · edited#9

This follows post #6 rather than contradicting it.

What would change the position on repair peptides: adequately powered, published, peer-reviewed randomised controlled human trials with pre-specified outcomes. That is the standard applied to every other therapeutic claim on this site and it is the standard applied here.

30 likes 21mo
NH
n.haddadTL2 Moderator8 Nov 2024#14
r.villalobos, post #8: On post #4 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification. Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing. The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough. Go to post

This follows post #11 rather than contradicting it.

The absence of adequately powered published randomised human trials is the central fact about BPC-157. This site states that plainly rather than hedging. Mechanistic plausibility does not substitute for it.

29 likes in reply to #8 21mo
R
RodriguesTL3Regular14 Nov 2024#54

Picking up post #51: that is the part I would want checked first.

Analytical identity of BPC-157: a 15-residue peptide with an unambiguous mass (≈1419.5 Da). Identity confirmation by LC-MS is trivially easy, which means there is no excuse for an unverified identity on this compound.

31 likes 20mo
SK
s.kuuselaTL2 Moderator15 Nov 2024#59
TL4_Halvorsen, post #46: I read post #44 twice before replying, because I had assumed the opposite. Reading a preclinical wound-healing model: the model shows whether a mechanism is plausible in a specific context. It does not show magnitude of effect in humans, does not show safety profile in humans, and does not show whether the effect survives in a more… Go to post

On post #55 — agreed on the reasoning, with one qualification.

Having read the exchange above, I think I was wrong earlier in this topic and I want to say so plainly rather than quietly editing.

The correction was fair and I had been repeating something I had not checked carefully enough.

30 likes in reply to #46 20mo
M
MSaarinenTL3Regular16 Nov 2024#71

Why plausible mechanism is not evidence of effect: a mechanism that is chemically or biologically plausible can fail in practice for dozens of reasons — bioavailability, off-target effects, metabolism, clearance, or simply that the mechanism does not do what the theory predicts in a living system. Plausibility is necessary for hope but not sufficient for evidence.

32 likes 20mo
MD
m.dalgaardTL3Regular19 Nov 2024#91
j.nwosu, post #12: The distinction between "no evidence it works" and "evidence it does not work": we have the first for these compounds. That is genuinely different from the second and the distinction matters, but it also means treatment plans based on these compounds are being built on theoretical grounds, not empirical ones. Go to post

Analytical identity of BPC-157: a 15-residue peptide with an unambiguous mass (≈1419.5 Da). Identity confirmation by LC-MS is trivially easy, which means there is no excuse for an unverified identity on this compound.

29 likes in reply to #12 20mo
ED
e.dalgleishTL3Regular24 Nov 2024 · edited#136

Coming back to post #134, because the follow-up matters more than the original answer.

Publication patterns in the BPC-157 literature: a large proportion of the evidence comes from one research group. That is not necessarily wrong — one group can do excellent work — but it is worth noting when evaluating the breadth of support for a claim.

31 likes 20mo

Read the full topic (161 posts)

This topic was closed 30 days after the last reply. Closing is automatic for quiet topics so that a settled answer does not collect new questions underneath it. If you have a follow-up, open a new topic and link back to this one — that keeps both readable and gives your question its own title.

Suggested topics

TopicParticipantsRepliesViewsActivity
Stability of BPC-157 in solution: what has been measured — one year on
On the subject in the title: Stability of BPC-157 in solution: what has been measured — one year on Working notes rather than a conclusion. Comparing STEP 2 ( Lancet , 2021) with STEP 1 ( N Engl J Med , 2021)…
KFNASCPWVB+84 98 7.8k 18h
What would change my mind about repair peptides: a specific answer — one year on
What would change my mind about repair peptides: a specific answer — one year on I have a specific reason for asking rather than idle curiosity, and the context is below. Session topic: STEP 1 ( N Engl J Med…
CTLLFVON+9 13 42k 19mo
About the Repair & healing peptides category
BPC-157, TB-500 and similar. Mostly preclinical evidence; this subcategory is strict about not overstating it. This post is a community wiki: any member at trust level 3 or above can edit it, and every edit…
SLHSENALEF 4 19k 13mo
BPC-157: what the rodent literature actually shows, and what it does not — a second dataset
On the subject in the title: BPC-157: what the rodent literature actually shows, and what it does not — a second dataset Working notes rather than a conclusion. I have seen PIONEER 6 ( N Engl J Med , 2019)…
WNCDSOOSB+77 84 54k 11mo
Revisiting: Oral versus injected administration claims for BPC-157
On the subject in the title: Revisiting: Oral versus injected administration claims for BPC-157 Working notes rather than a conclusion. I have seen SELECT ( N Engl J Med , 2023) cited in support of a claim I…
IGAAILRILD+23 27 7.7k 15mo

Related topics — sharing the tags TB-500, preprint, observational data

TopicParticipantsRepliesViewsActivity
Aggregated purity results across four services, with caveats — a second dataset
Aggregated purity results across four services, with caveats — a second dataset — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. Working through the identity arithmetic and I would like…
CWFNHLTHRE+127 151 42k 10mo
Coming back to: Why a preprint's supplementary material is often the best part
Why a preprint's supplementary material is often the best part — that is the question, and I have not found it answered plainly anywhere I have looked. Comparing SURPASS-2 ( N Engl J Med , 2021) with STEP 4 (…
GDIBDTHFBV+109 116 36k 2d
Citing a preprint in a maintained document: our rule and its reasoning — does this still hold?
The question in the title: Citing a preprint in a maintained document: our rule and its reasoning — does this still hold? I will give what I have already checked below so nobody repeats it. I have seen LEADER…
CRFDSIAST+103 115 24k 10mo
Immortal time bias in a claims-database study
Immortal time bias in a claims-database study — setting out what I have, and where I think it stops being reliable. I have seen FLOW ( N Engl J Med , 2024) cited in support of a claim I do not think it…
MACDSOIDNN+29 34 28k 11mo
Coming back to: A community side-effect dataset, with its response rate and biases
On the subject in the title: A community side-effect dataset, with its response rate and biases Working notes rather than a conclusion. Posting the method first, because I know what the first three replies…
AATSCNPMA+27 31 46k 9mo